The “names” on the ancient Greek vases are there for everyone to see, but only the Scythic speaking people can read the hidden message of these scytales! What a revealing name! that goes unnoticed by scientists for two and a half thousand years.The small cup from Corinth (1883 or earlier), now in Paris, Louvre MNC 332, has these “names” added to the boxing scene:
> Víjó (vívó) ki elbukta fél vége. (The fighter, who lost it, fears his end.)

CONTENTS Amazons & Scythians 'Nonsense Inscriptions'?! Making Sense Etruscan=Hungarian Cretan Hieroglyphs Linear A Sundry MY HUNGARIAN PAGES
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Blog : Making SenseKeywords : olpe, quadriga, Thetis, Sphortos, Nereids, Gorgon

Making Sense after Rudolf Wachter VI. (Corinth 4.)

~ @ COR 85 ~

The transliteration into modern Greek from the different ancient handwritings is done by H. R. Immerwahr and others, which in turn is transcribed by me, using this simple ABC table, at the same time backfilling the left out vowels, to reconstruct the inscriptions in today's spelling.

As the Corinthian vase-inscriptions make up quite a large part of Wachter's book, I did break this part up into five subheadings, plus a separate blog for the Kypselos chest, which actually COR 66 in Wächter's book.

COR 88 has two ligatures (missed by the epigrapher!) in “misspelled labels”, which make perfect sense in the context when read as bubble-words complementing the depicted scene. The reading of COR 92 is perfectly complementing the banquet scene, while COR 104 the boar-hunting scene.

~ @ COR 85 ~

Hydria from Vulci, by the Dionysios P. (Amyx) (1828/29); lost in World War II. Formerly Berlin, Antiquarium F 1657.

Scene: A woman (a) and a man (b) in long robes facing each other, a warrior (c) to r. taking his armour from a man in a long robe (unnamed), a fully armed warrior (d) walking to r. towards a man in a long robe, who is facing him (e), frontal view of two horsemen (unnamed) on dark horses, one of which is named ( f ).

Date: LC (Lorber); c.560–550 (LIMC).

(a) Dοροι > üDÖ' íRÓJa > üdöl (ünnepel) írója (the writer of it celebrates)

(b) Ευμαχος > EVVe' MA GYŐZ > evvel ma győz (with this today wins)

(c) Αγανορ > Αγανθρ > A GÁNCSRa > a gáncsra (for the carp/cavil)

(d) [. . .]. ας > [Υσ/ιζγ]τας > [USZí/IZGa]TÁS > uszítás/izgatás (incitement)

(e) Δα[ṃ/p.]ας > Δαπας > De APA SZű/SZó > de apa szű/szó (but the father's heart/word)

(f) Ξανθος > Ki SZÁNaTOS > ki szánatos (who is pitiable)

Üdöl (ünnepel) írója. Evvel ma győz a gáncsra uszítás/izgatás, de apa szű/szó ki szánatos. (The writer of this celebrates. With this today wins the incitement for carp/cavil, but the father's heart/word is pitiable.)

Wachter's interpretation: Non-heroic arming scene (labels).

~ @ COR 86 ~

Lekythos (of ‘Attic’ shape) from ?, by the Dionysios P. (Amyx) (1960 or earlier). New York, Metropolitan Mus. of Art 60. II. 5.

Scene: A dog and front view of a quadriga with dark horses, of which the outer ones are named (a) and (c). Below the chariot and charioteer is inscr. (b).

Date: LC (Lorber); c.570–550 (LIMC).

(a) Λελανας > aLÉL Á'NA SZó > alél állna szó (the word would stand languidly)

(b) Διονυσιος > De JÖN ŰZi ŐS > de jön űzi ős (but here comes the forefather driving it)

(c) Ευφορβος > ÉVő FŐ'RoVÓS > évő fölrovós (the worrying censor/critic)

Alél(tan) állna szó, de jön űzi ős évő (évelődő) fölrovós. (The word would stand languidly, but here comes the forefather, the worrying censor/critic driving it.)

Wachter's interpretation: Non-heroic chariot scene (labels).

~ @ COR 87 ~

Olpe (of ‘Attic’ type, Amyx) from Loutraki, NE of Corinth (1878). Athens, Nat. Mus. 521.

Scene: Quadriga to r. with a charioteer (a). All horses are named, (b)–(e), but it is not clear which name designates which horse.1 To the r. there is a lizard ( f ).

Date: LC (Lorber); 1st h. 6th cent. (LIMC).

(a) Ακαμας > AKi A MÁSé > aki a másé (who belongs to somebody else)

(b) Ϙυλḷαρος > Ϙυλδαρος2 > KÜLDi A ROSSZ > küldi a rossz (is sent by the bad)

(c) Φοιτον > FOLYTON > folyton (non-stop)

(d) Λυσιπολις3 > eLŰZI aBBÓL IS > elűzi abból is (expelled out of that too)

(e) Ϙυλλαρος > oKUL áLL A ROSSZ > okul áll a rossz (the bad stands as the cause)

(f) Ασκαλαβος > A SoK ÁLLó A'VÓ iS > a sok álló alvó is (the many standing sleepwalker too)

Aki a másé, (azt) küldi a rossz, folyton elűzi. Abból is okul áll a rossz. A sok álló alvó is. (The one, who belongs to somebody else, is sent by the bad, he is non-stop expelled. The bad stands as the cause for that too. The many standing sleepwalker (stands as the cause) too.)

Wachter's interpretation: Chariot scene, probably pseudo-heroic (labels).

~ COR 88 ~

Olpe (of ‘Attic’ type, Amyx) from Corinth (1889). Brussels, Mus. Royaux A 4.

textsScene: In front of a woman to r. (unnamed) and a man to r., who seems to be talking (a), a woman to r. (b) is bending down to a man (c) who is lying on a kline, mourning (his name is written below the kline and a table with food). Behind him, facing l., there are an old man with white hair and beard, who also seems to be talking (d), and two nameless women. Date: c.550 (LIMC i).

(a) Ολισευς > ÖLI ZEUSZ > öli Zeusz (Zeus kills him)

(b) Θετιες > CSE'TŰ' ES > cseltől es(ik) (he falls from ruse/wile)

(d) Αχιλλεụς > Αχιλλε{Υ+Α}4ς > A GYŰLöLő E VAS > a gyűlölő e vas (the spiteful this steel)

(c) Φινγρ.ς > Φινγρ{Δ+Ϝ}5ς > FINNYa éGRe üDVöS > finnya (válogató) égre üdvös (finicky(!) for the heavens salutary)

Öli Zeusz, cseltől es(ik) a gyűlölő. E vas finnya (válogató) égre üdvös. (Zeus kills him, the spiteful falls from ruse/wile. This steel finicky(!) is salutary for the heavens.)

Wachter's interpretation: Thetis and the elders with the mourning Achilleus (labels).

The depicted scene and the actors are definitely those implied by Wachter's interpretation, but the names are “misspelled” to reflect and complement the story. The epithet gyűlölő ('spiteful') is more than appropriate for Achilleus, who killed even prisoners of war out of sheer hatred.

~ @ COR 89 ~

Olpe (of ‘Attic’ type, Amyx) from Caere (ex Campana inv. 34; 1857 or earlier). Paris, Louvre E 648.

Scene: Frontal quadriga with a dark horse (a), two white ones, unnamed and (c), and another dark one (e); in the chariot a charioteer (b) and a warrior (d).

Date: LC (Lorber); c.570–550 (LIMC i).

(a) Φερες > FÉ'ReESő > félreeső (out-of-the-way)

(b) Ανιοχιδας > ANNYi JÓ üGY oDÁZZa > annyi jó ügy odázza (so many good affairs puts off)

(c) Ξανθος > Ki SZÁNaTOS > ki szánatos (who is pitiable)

(d) Λαϝοπτολεμος > eLA'VÓ BőTŐL EMŐS > elalvó bőtől emős (over-sleeper breasted/bust from plenty)

(e) Βαλιος > BALJÓS > baljós (ominous)

Félreeső annyi jó ügy, odázza ki szánatos elalvó. Bőtől emős, baljós. (So many good affairs are out-of-the-way, the pitiable over-sleeper puts them off. He is breasted/bust from plenty ominously.)

Wachter's interpretation: Chariot scene, probably pseudoheroic (labels).

~ @ COR 92 ~

Column krater from Caere (?), by the Sphortos P. (see Amyx) (ex Campana inv. ?; 1857 or earlier). Florence, Mus. Arch. Etrusco 4198.

Scene: Banquet scene with klinai and tables with food. Four pairs of a hetaira and a man on the klinai(a) and (b), unnamed and (c), (d) and (e), ( f ) and (g). On the other side six horses to l., on every second of which there is a named warrior, (h)–( j); they are followed by two nameless footwarriors.

Date: LC (Lorber).

(a) Δοṛοι > Δοροι > DŐRe OLY > dőre oly (silly is someone)

(b) [.].ṃϝον > [Ξ]ενϝον > Ki SZENVŐN > ki szenvőn (szenvedélyesen) (who passionately)

(c) ..ḷαγορạς > Ραμαγορδς > iRAMMA' uGORDáZ > irammal ugordáz (ugrándozik) (with speed jumps up and down)

(d) Σελινοι > eSZELI NŐJe > eszeli nője (his woman advises him)

(e) Ηρμαιος > Ha RiMÁJOZ > ha rimájoz (kurválkodik) (when fools around)

(f) Ερατοι > E RA'T OLY > e rajt oly (this on him is such)

(g) Σφορτος > C/SÁFORíTÓS > sáforítós/csáforítós (behízelgős) (winning)

(h) Λαδαμαϝος > eL A DÁMA VÖSZ > el a dáma vesz (the lady takes you)

(i) Λαδαμας > eLADÁ MÁS > eladá más (someone else sold her)

(j) Ηιποτιον > HiBa OTT JÖN > hiba ott jön (the mistake comes from there)

Dőre oly ki szenvőn (szenvedélyesen), irammal ugordáz (ugrándozik). Eszeli nője ha rimájoz (kurválkodik), e rajt oly sáforítós/csáforítós (behízelgős). El a dáma vesz – eladá más – hiba ott jön. (Silly is someone who passionately, with speed jumps up and down. His woman advises him when fools around, this (woman) on him is such winning. The lady takes you – someone else sold her – the mistake comes from there.)

Wachter's interpretation: Non-heroic banquet and riding scenes (labels).

~ @ COR 95 ~

Fr. of a krater from ? (found ?). Basle, H. A. Cahn Coll. HC 1173.

Scene: Head of a man (no name preserved), wrestling with an old man with fish body (a). They are watched by four women to l., one partly covered by them (no name preserved), two others clearly visible (no names preserved), and another one, (b), a small section of whose skirt is all that is left (the label is written downwards in front of her). Date: LC I (i.e. 570–550) (Amyx); 2nd q. 6th cent. (LIMC).

(a) Νερευς > öNÉRE EVőS > önére evős (evődő) (the grumpy with oneself)

(b) [...?]δορi[...?] > Δορi[ς] > DŐRe IS > dőre is (silly as well)

Önére evős (evődő) dőre is. (The grumpy with oneself is silly as well.)

Wachter's interpretation: Herakles wrestling with Nereus (labels).

~ @ COR 96A-B ~

(A) Fr. of a krater from Gela (1896 or earlier); lost in World War II (E. Paul, per litt., with correct inv. no.). (B) Fr. of a krater from ? (1977 or earlier). (A) Formerly Leipzig, Antiken Mus. der Univ. T 307, (B) Geneva (private).

Scene: (A) Parts of two dressed women to l., the name of the first is lost, that of the second is half preserved (it started in front of her face). The position of the two arms preserved shows that the women were dancing (Lorber) or walking quickly. To the r., a small remnant of what may have been a wing (Lorber) is visible. (B) Dressed woman (named) hastening to l. (but probably looking back), parts of a man, striding in the same direction (no name preserved).

Date: (A) MC (Lorber). (B) LC I, red-ground (i.e. 570–550) (Amyx).

(A) [. . .]. ανερα ?

(B) Πνοτομεδοισα > BeNŐTTŐ' MEDDŐ ISSZA > Benőttől meddő issza. (From in-growth infertile drinks it.)

Wachter's interpretation: (A) Unidentified scene, perhaps with Nereids (Peleus surprising Thetis and her sisters?) (label). (B) Unidentified scene with Nereids, perhaps Peleus surprising Thetis and her sisters (label).

~ @ COR 98 ~

Column krater from Caere, near the Poteidan P. (see Amyx) (ex Campana inv. 41; 1857 or earlier). Paris, Louvre E 639.

Scene: A man to r. (named) jumping up from behind an altar and a tree, attacking seven women, who try to escape to r. (not named).

Date: c.560 (Schefold (1964) and (1966), LIMC vii); LC (Lorber); c.575–550 (LIMC vi); c.570 (Schefold (1993) ).

Πελευς > BÉL E'VeSZi/ViSZi > Bél (Bál) elveszi/elviszi (Thetiszt) (Bel/Bal marries her/takes her (away))

Wachter's interpretation: Peleus surprising Thetis and her sisters (label).

~ @ COR 99 ~

Column krater from ? (found ?). Market (Basle).

Scene: A charioteer (a) in a chariot to r. Beyond the horses a warrior, labelled (b) below the horses, is stabbing another one, who is falling (to r.) beyond the horses of his own quadriga (to l.). His label (c) is written to the r. of his horses’ hind legs; his charioteer (d) is waiting in the chariot. On the reverse there are three horsemen to l., unnamed, (e), and ( f ). Date: c.560 (Cahn–Berger-Haas–Perry);

(a) Ḍιον > Λιον > áLLJON/éLJÖN > álljon/éljön (stop it/let it live)

(b) Αιϝας > ÁJJ VAS > állj vas (steel do stop)

(c) Δον > iDŐN > időn (on time)

(d) Λαιδας > áLLAJD A SZó > állajt a szó (D>T) (the word stops it)

(e) ?

(f ) Ḍιον > Λιον > áLLJON/éLJÖN > álljon/éljön (stop it/let it live)

Álljon!/Éljön! Állj vas! Időn állajt (állít) a szó. (Stop it!/Let him live! Steel do stop! On time the word stops it.)

Wachter's interpretation: Pseudo-heroic battle scene (labels). Nonheroic riding scene (labels).

~ COR 100 ~

Oinochoe from ?, Andromeda Group (see Amyx) (found ?). Florence, Mus. Arch. Etr. 3755.

Scene: A horseman to r. (a), a Gorgon running to r. (b), and a horseman to l. (c).

Date: LC (Lorber); 2nd q. 6th cent., c.570–550 (LIMC iv).

(a) Ευφαμος > E VőFé Á'MOS > e vőfé(ly) álmos (this best-man’s sleepy)

(b) Σθενοι > SZiTTYENŐJe > szittyenője (csoszogása) (shuffle)

(c) Πολυς > aPOL-ŰZő > apol-űző (kiss-repulsive)

E vőfé(ly) álmos szittyenője (csoszogása) apol-űző. (This best-man’s sleepy shuffle is kiss-repulsive.)

Wachter's interpretation: Pseudo-heroic riding scene with a Gorgon (labels).

~ @ COR 101 ~

Amphora from Caere, Andromeda Group (see Amyx) (1877). Berlin, Antikensammlung F 1652.

Scene: On one side there is the head of a sea-monster to r. (a), at which Perseus (b), with winged shoes, bag, and hat, is about to throw large stones; behind him a woman (c) brings more stones. On the other side a man (d) is riding on a male ass (e), next to them a dog is running along.

Date: c.550 (Schefold (1964) and (1966) ); LC (Lorber); 2nd q. 6th cent. (LIMC i, vii); c.570–550 (LIMC iv); c.560 (Schefold (1993) ).

(a) Κετος > KETÖS > CETÖS (cet-szerű)6 > cetös (cet-szerű) (a whale-like)

(b) Περσευς > BÉReS EVőS > béres evős (farmhand is hearty eater)

(c) Ανδροṃεδα > ANDa öRÖME DA' > anda öröme dal (song is the joy of the gently musing one)

(d) Eυϝαρχος >EVő VÁR iGYOS > evő vár igyos (the eater waits the drinker)

(e) Ονος > ÖNÖS > önös (selfish)

Cetös (cet-szerű) béres evős. Anda öröme dal. Evő vár – igyos önös. (A whale-like farmhand is hearty eater. Song is the joy of the gently musing one. The eater waits – the drinker is selfish.)

Wachter's interpretation: Perseus freeing Andromeda (labels). Non-heroic riding scene (labels).

~ @ COR 102 ~

Hydria from Caere, Andromeda Group (see Amyx) (1836 or earlier). Rome, Vatican, Mus. Gregoriano Etrusco 16. 438.

Scene: Three men to r., (a)–(c), running to the central scene where two hunters, (d) to r. and ( f ) to l., are stabbing a boar to r. (e). From the r. another two men, (g) and (h), running, and a horseman ( j) on his horse (i)350 are approaching.

Date: 2nd q. 6th cent. (Simon); LC (Lorber); c.570–550 (LIMC).

(a) Πολυφαμος > Πολυφανος > BÖLLŰ' FANOS > böllűl fanos (for pig-sticker he is just getting hairy)

(b) Ϝ[.]ον > Ϝ[ι]ον > VíJJON > víjjon (he should fight)

(c) Ϝιον > VaJON > vajon (whether)

(d) Ϝιον > VaJJON > valljon (let it show)

(e) Ḳ[.]π[.]oς > Κ[α]π[ρ]oς > Ki A BiRÓS > ki a birós (who can do it)

(f) Διον > DőJJÖN > dőljön (let it be decided)

(g) Χαρον > aGYARON > agyaron (on the tusk)

(h) Πολυστρατος > BÖLLő ÜST RÁ uTÓSó > böllő üst rá utósó (the pig-sticker's cauldron for it is the last)

(i) Ϙοραξ > KORA(i) KéS > kora(i) kés (early knife)

(j) Φρυξ > FaRoVóKéS > farovókés (wood-carving knife)

Böllűl fanos víjjon vajon? Valljon ki a birós, dőljön agyaron. Böllő üst rá utósó. Kora(i) kés – farovókés. (For a pig-sticker, he is just getting hairy, should he fight? Let it show who can do it, let it be decided on the tusk. The pig-sticker's cauldron for it is the last. Early knife is a wood-carving knife.)

Wachter's interpretation: Boar-hunt, perhaps pseudoheroic (labels).

I would say, the labels are bubble words spoken by the onlookers of the boar-hunt.

~ @ COR 103 ~

Hydria from Vulci, Andromeda Group (see Amyx) (before 1859). Baltimore, Walters Art Gallery 48. 2032.

Scene: Three horsemen galloping to l. Although there is plenty of space, only the second, (a), on a white horse, the third, (c), and his horse (b)353 are named. Date: LC (Lorber); c.570–550 (LIMC).

(a) Βιον > VáJJON/VaJJON > váljon/valljon ( let leave/quit or let him confess)

(b) Ξανθος > Ki SZÁNaTOS > ki szánatos ((who is) pitiable)

(c) Ϝαχας > VÁGYÁS > vágyás (desire)

Váljon/valljon ki szánatos vágyás. (Let pitiable desire leave/quit. or Let the one who is pitiable desire confess.)

Wachter's interpretation: Non-heroic riding scene (labels, probably in Chalcidian script).

~ @ COR 104 ~

Krater (of ‘Chalcidian’ shape, Amyx) from near Capua, Andromeda Group (see Amyx) (1766 or earlier). London, British Mus. 1772 3-20. 6.

Scene: On one side three men to r., (a)–(c), are attacking a boar from behind and two, (d) and unnamed, from the front. On the other side three horsemen are riding to l., unnamed, (e), and ( f ). Date: LC (Lorber); c.550–540 (LIMC).

(a) Πολυδας > BÖLLő VaDÁSZ > böllő7 vadász (pig-sticker hunter)

(b) Αντιφατας > Αντιϙατας > ANNYi TIKKATTÁS > annyi tikkadtás (tikkasztás) (after making it tired for so long)

(c) Πολυφας > Πολυϙας > öBÖ' LUKAS > öböl lukas (the fencing in is hollow)

(d) Ευδορος > E VaD OROZó > e vad orozó (lopakodó) (this beast is stealthy)

(e) Παντιππος > BÁNTI BáBOS > bánti bábos (bábjátékos) (puppeteer harms it)

(f) Πολυδορος > BÖLLő VaDOROZó > böllő vadorozó (pig-sticker is poacher)

Böllő vadász, annyi tikkadtás (tikkasztás után az) öböl lukas. E vad orozó (lopakodó). Bánti bábos, (bábjátékos) böllő vadorozó. (Pig-sticker hunter, after making it tired for so long the fencing in is hollow. This beast is stealthy. Puppeteer harms it, the pig-sticker is a poacher.)

Wachter's interpretation: Non-heroic boar-hunt and riding scenes (labels).

1 With names like the “club-footed and bandy-legged' and 'Trabler' (troubler?) neither of them would be flattered. And two horses with the same name in one quadriga?

2Epigraphy: (b) The writer seems to have decided to express the geminate only when he was already in the course of writing the fourth letter.” or he did the right thing writing a Δ , which makes perfect sense in the spot!

3 The name “is most unusual for a horse, though not inconceivable, and we may wander where it is taken from,” why forcing it on a horse than?

4 = {V+A}, a very clever and legitimate ligature, just like the following

5 {Δ+Ϝ}. These two perfectly construed ligatures makes the judgement: “this writer is illiterate” fall on the judge! The writer is actually very much aware that the 'V' in üDVöS is the lexical formative ~Ú/~Ű, which after the voiced 'D' hardened into 'V'. In the applied defective notation of vowels, he could leave out the 'U' vowel, but not the 'V' consonant, so, he inserted it with Ϝ (digamma), by adding a stroke to Δ. A very clever thought from an “illiterate”, isn't it?

6 cete = vastag kötél 'thick rope'; Κετος 'seals', 'whales', 'sea-monsters' in Homer; Cetacea.

7 ölő = bölő/böllő = böllér (barom-ölő = hentes > hents > hentchman! 'bérenc') “A b több szóban oly elõtétes hang, mely a gyök érteményén mitsem változtat, legfölebb az illetõ szót hangzatosabbá teszi, ú. m. á, bá; ám, bám; ámul, bámul; ámít, bámít; ángó, bángó; iczeg, biczeg; illeg, billeg; izgat, bizgat; ibolya, bibolya; uborka, buborka; ringat, bringat; ringyó, bregyó; izseg, bizseg; Andri, Bandri; Örzse, Börzse. Többször az alapszó érteményét némi árnyalattal módosítja, mint: atya, bátya; anya, banya; állvány, bálvány; al, bal; ennünket, bennünket; omlik, bomlik; ér(ték) bér; öklel, bök; ötlik botlik, stb. Némely szókban csak ikerítve divatozik: inogbinog, ingóbingó, elegybelegy, ákombákom, csigabiga, csonkabonka.” Czuczor-Fogarasi szótár

Mihaly Mellar

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The Scythian language resurrects as Scythic-Hun-Magyar.


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The Scythian language resurrects as Scythic-Hun-Magyar.


Making Sense

This work is based on Rudolf Wächter's book, entitled Non-Attic Greek Vase Inscriptions. He sets out the goal to identify “the linguistic and epigraphical features” of the inscriptions, but makes himself lame at the outset for the linguistic aim by declaring that al the inscriptions are only names (labels): heroic, non-heroic, or even good for nothing “throwaway” names.

On the contrary, we read these “names” and conceive them as explanatory and complementary words to the drawn scene. What the ancient painters could not express with their pictorial means, they have added in words without any prudery. As a matter of facts, without reading and understanding these inscriptions one cannot really comprehend what the drawing is all about.

The vases in Wachter's book are categorised epigraphically, by the locally used variant of the alphabet, into 22 groups named after these localities. We will follow this line, only breaking the text up into more easily manageable pieces. Due to the limitations of our browsers, we use only the transliterations of vase inscriptions to modern Greek alphabet, which in turn we transliterate, using the table in the Alphabets blog, into Magyar ABC and read the inscriptions by backfilling the left out vowels.



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Szekeres Sándor


és a betlehemi csillag

A könyv a múlt és a jelen sérthetetlen dogmáit kérdőjelezi meg, fájdalmas sebeket szakitva fel a társadalmi közérzeten, mind a hétköznapokra, a tudományos életre és a hit világára vonatkoztatva. Megtalálta a valódi betlehemi csillagot, szó lesz a történelmi, a pártus Jézusról, a valós keresztrefeszítéséről és egy szörnyű végű összeesküvésről, aminek egyik következménye a téves időszámításunk és a kronológiánk sötét középkora. Talán nem is véltetlen, hogy most íródott meg a könyv - írja - ismét az útkeresés korában járunk. Létezésünk és hitvilágunk alapjai esnek szét, új kérdések jönnek, új válaszok kellenek. Ezek alapjait érinti meg ez az írás, új szemléletet adva eddig érinthetetlennek gondolt tabuknak.

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